(And I know you ask that I not post until I've read all the report -- which I'm still _wading_ through -- but I did want to comment on a couple of your points with some questions. Questions that might help me better understand your perspective, and potentially help me look at the report in a different way).
Where is the reference to the preservation of liberal arts at Saint John Polytechnic (SJP)? (my understanding of a Vocational school is that it is unusual to find any liberal arts programs, and it is difficult to imagine having them in SJ when St. Thomas and Mt. A are suggested that designation).
I'd love to see SJP in the company of MIT, CIT and Ryerson, but how can we at SJP achieve that status? That position come from more than just a name change. So far, this is one of the main areas the report seems to fall short (though, by the time I reach the end, I am hoping to be pleasantly surprised) -- substance. A good marketing report, I agree, but not very thorough, detailed or analytical (so far). (And these three institutions are, in fact, now much more like Universities; that grew from applied and technical colleges and have spent years to reach their current status).
Finally, is your point 3 another case of apples and oranges? Surely it isn't the name polytechnic alone that results in a more money, research or contracts. I can't say I've seen the research that demonstrates the research superiority of Polytechnics over research Universities.
Good to bat this around with you!! Look forward to more (once I read the report, of course ;)
I'd say the most critical fact that the report neglects to mention is that Ryerson is no longer a polytechnic, but a full-fledged 4 year degree granting university. sort of like UNBSJ in 2008, as opposed to where it was in 1968 (a 2 year feeder school).
Thank you for your posts. I apologize that I have not found time to participate in my own discussion as much as I would have liked. Perhaps someone like me should refrain from blogging until I find the time to commit to it?
Some time has passed and we have all had time, experience, and information to mature our opinions on this issue.
Without getting into much detail, my opinion has evolved, as I'm sure yours has. I still believe the broad strokes of the report are very good and "transformational change" in our PSE system is necessary and desired and I am not any more supportive of status quo preservers than I was when I wrote this original blog.
However, I believe that Saint John needs a "both/and" approach, not "either/or". We need NBCC to grow into a polytechnic, perhaps relocate to Tucker Park where it can integrate better with the University and Hospital and the dynamic culture there, and we need our university to grow and expand as well as focus on the various needs of our community.
I also believe the PSE system needs to acknowledge and accommodate the reality that education will be primarily web-based before our century reaches its first quarter and transformational change needs to have this reality in the core of its planning.
Above all, we need Research and Development to increase in NB and in Saint John. We need a system of higher learning as our economy is pushing the limits of human possibilities and we will be left behind if we do not capitalize on the creative abilities of every single New Brunswicker..
4 comments:
Good to see you posting again Jeff!
(And I know you ask that I not post until I've read all the report -- which I'm still _wading_ through -- but I did want to comment on a couple of your points with some questions. Questions that might help me better understand your perspective, and potentially help me look at the report in a different way).
Where is the reference to the preservation of liberal arts at Saint John Polytechnic (SJP)? (my understanding of a Vocational school is that it is unusual to find any liberal arts programs, and it is difficult to imagine having them in SJ when St. Thomas and Mt. A are suggested that designation).
I'd love to see SJP in the company of MIT, CIT and Ryerson, but how can we at SJP achieve that status? That position come from more than just a name change. So far, this is one of the main areas the report seems to fall short (though, by the time I reach the end, I am hoping to be pleasantly surprised) -- substance. A good marketing report, I agree, but not very thorough, detailed or analytical (so far). (And these three institutions are, in fact, now much more like Universities; that grew from applied and technical colleges and have spent years to reach their current status).
Finally, is your point 3 another case of apples and oranges? Surely it isn't the name polytechnic alone that results in a more money, research or contracts. I can't say I've seen the research that demonstrates the research superiority of Polytechnics over research Universities.
Good to bat this around with you!! Look forward to more (once I read the report, of course ;)
I'd say the most critical fact that the report neglects to mention is that Ryerson is no longer a polytechnic, but a full-fledged 4 year degree granting university.
sort of like UNBSJ in 2008, as opposed to where it was in 1968 (a 2 year feeder school).
another question: why do you say "polytechnic is positioned better for this than a traditional liberal arts university"
this being: the ability to deliver mainly online courses with face-to-face taking a more supportive/facilitative role
I'm continually adding online elements to my courses and can't see why a polyannie ;) would be more disposed to allowing this
Greg and Brunnie,
Thank you for your posts. I apologize that I have not found time to participate in my own discussion as much as I would have liked. Perhaps someone like me should refrain from blogging until I find the time to commit to it?
Some time has passed and we have all had time, experience, and information to mature our opinions on this issue.
Without getting into much detail, my opinion has evolved, as I'm sure yours has. I still believe the broad strokes of the report are very good and "transformational change" in our PSE system is necessary and desired and I am not any more supportive of status quo preservers than I was when I wrote this original blog.
However, I believe that Saint John needs a "both/and" approach, not "either/or". We need NBCC to grow into a polytechnic, perhaps relocate to Tucker Park where it can integrate better with the University and Hospital and the dynamic culture there, and we need our university to grow and expand as well as focus on the various needs of our community.
I also believe the PSE system needs to acknowledge and accommodate the reality that education will be primarily web-based before our century reaches its first quarter and transformational change needs to have this reality in the core of its planning.
Above all, we need Research and Development to increase in NB and in Saint John. We need a system of higher learning as our economy is pushing the limits of human possibilities and we will be left behind if we do not capitalize on the creative abilities of every single New Brunswicker..
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